Author Topic: Why are Cycle Stop Valves or CSV's not on Every Pump?  (Read 2860 times)

Cary Austin

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Why are Cycle Stop Valves or CSV's not on Every Pump?
« on: April 28, 2015, 05:25:18 PM »
The following is an example of the typical emails I have been getting on a regular basis for over 20 years.  People wonder why the Cycle Stop Valve has been around so long and isn’t installed on every pump application or isn’t even all that well known.  The CSV must be the most counter-intuitive product on the market.  When the majority of Engineers think like the guy in the following email, it is no wonder that the average person or even experienced pump installer is confused about what to do.

All I can tell you is that it has taken me 20+ years to learn a lot of this stuff on my own, because there apparently are very few that know enough to teach it to me.  Time has proven me correct on all counts.  In all these years no one has been able to prove me wrong, the damage to pumps or increase in energy consumption they predicted never came true, and I am still in business with hundreds of thousands of happy customers and zero unhappy customers.

But all too often I get an email like the following.  I will spend hours trying to show them how to read a pump curve.  In the end I will either see the light bulb brighten above their head at the moment of understanding, or I will be told I am entitled to my own opinion and never get a reply to my explanation.  They will either become better engineers for finally understanding the counter-intuitive principal of centrifugal pumps, or they will be the cause of the next “Engineering Disaster”, which is one of my favorite shows.

Not only is the function of a CSV counter-intuitive and hard to understand, but it is also a “disruptive product” that makes pumps last longer, use smaller pressure tanks, and eliminates the need for profitable items like VFD’s.  I guess there is no wonder why in all these years the Cycle Stop Valve has not become commonplace.  But it is a fun thing to sell as everyday I get to show people something they find amazing.  And I have very little competition as there are very few who can explain how it works.

I hope the guy in the following email will see the light soon.  I love it when one of these guys finally gets it.  The light bulb above their head gets really bright when they do.


"To Whom it May Concern
Ignorance truly is bliss. Your website demonstrates you have a very rudimentary understanding of pumping technology and fluid mechanics, I'm going to send it to my engineering buddies so they get a good laugh. Good for you for being able to cite VFD technology from 1993 as a reason to use pressure reducing valves that have been around for over 100 years, all while claiming they save energy, all while getting people to believe it and making a business out of it. You don't even understand the pump affinity laws from the looks of things. I find the ethics of your marketing very questionable and would suggest you make some edits and stop spreading lies. There is no "VFD Conspiracy."

I'm a licensed professional engineer and also a Certified Energy Manager through AEE. If it were worth my time I could easily show you how putting a flow restriction device on a pump wastes energy.  It is probably the first thing you learn in engineering. You aren't the first good-ole-boy I've seen making ridiculous claims.  You can't say a technology is wrong because you've seen it implemented on the wrong applications. I don't think you have the knowledge or credentials to back up what you are saying. I read most of the drivel on your site and am appalled it is even legal for you to do so.

Regards,
Licensed Professional Engineer and Certified Energy Manager through AEE"



I will post the results of this conversation, one way or the other.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 10:23:38 AM by Cary Austin »

Cary Austin

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Re: Why are CSV's not on Every Pump?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2017, 11:03:23 AM »
Time gets by.  I just saw this again and realized almost 2 years ago I promised to post the results of this conversation.  Well the saying that you can't teach an old dog a new trick comes to mind, but I don't think this guy is very old.  Needless to say he is never going to get it.  Multiple emails back and forth and he can't be convinced of his misunderstandings.  I should post his name, show where he works, maybe even call his bosses as I firmly believe he will be the cause of one of the next great engineering disasters.  If not, then at least responsible for multiple smaller blunders for the rest of his life. 

However, I am getting older and am trying to leave sleeping dogs alone.  This is just one of many battles I should be fighting, but am no longer pursuing.  As a very smart man once told me, "success is the best revenge".  We have been fortunate that since 1993 many of you have "got it".  Our business is very successful with many thousands of happy customers.  We enjoy talking to our customers and hearing how the Cycle Stop Valve solved their problems.  I have decided to spend my time helping those who appreciate it, instead of wasting time on those who are not capable of understanding.

Cycle Stop Valves are never going to be on every pump as they should be.  One pump installer, who installs a couple hundred pumps a year told me...."I used a couple of those Cycle Stop Valves and they worked good and solved my problems".  I ask why he only used a couple of them and not on every pump he installs?  He said..."I don't have any more problems, as all the other systems will usually make it through the warranty period".   I explained that if he used a Cycle Stop Valve on every pump he installed, they would not just make it through the warranty period, but would last several times longer.  He just smiled and said..."I know that.  Why do you think I have only used a couple of Cycle Stop Valves?"   ;)
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 04:07:23 PM by Cary Austin »

Cary Austin

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Re: Why are CSV's not on Every Pump?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2017, 10:16:01 AM »
I read most of the drivel on your site and am appalled it is even legal for you to do so.

Regards,
Licensed Professional Engineer and Certified Energy Manager through AEE"[/b]

I just can''t leave this alone.  It is not legal for anyone to print or say inaccurate or misleading statements.  All pump and VFD manufacturers, along with a lot of engineers would love to shut me up.  The problem is that everything I have said and printed is 100% accurate.  Many have threatened and some, like the so called "engineer" in this thread blow a lot of smoke.  However, when it comes to doing the math and proving me wrong, which many have tried, they cannot. 

I read where they just passed a bill to force the EPA to show the science and math to prove the usefulness of their regulations.  The same should be done with the Department of Energy.  A lot of the regulations the DOE has made to supposedly save energy are having the opposite effect.  New regulations on motor efficiency will cost energy users and taxpayers billions of dollars, and will not save energy. 

Many private engineers, like the one in this thread, who get paid for knowing what they are doing are completely clueless.  Government engineers, who have no real world experience and would lose their jobs if they actually solved the problems, would never knowingly solve the problems, even if they understood how.

Big manufacturers guide the EPA and DOE in directions that promote their most profitable products, on the pretense of public safety and saving energy.  By redesigning a water system to work at lower pressure or use smaller pumps, energy savings can be documented.  However, a VFD or two is usually added to the system during the redesign, which wrongly gets the credit for any energy savings. 

Claiming that VFD's save energy makes them an easy sell and very profitable for the manufacturers.  The DOE and many utility companies are even paying incentives to install a VFD.  Government agencies public perception that they are trying to help YOU save energy is more important than actually saving energy.  Making them show the math and science behind regulations will expose many government agencies for what they really are.  These self-serving government agencies are a drain on our resources and a hindrance to our economy.  They need to be held accountable and many need to be told "your fired".

Cary Austin

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Re: Why are Cycle Stop Valves or CSV's not on Every Pump?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2017, 11:16:28 AM »
For all of those who have difficulty understanding pump curves, like engineer ibosley who this thread is about, I made a video of pump curves to better explain.  See this link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GABhLLtjas

wgabriel

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Re: Why are Cycle Stop Valves or CSV's not on Every Pump?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2017, 11:16:05 AM »
Excellent video, Cary. I hope it helps some people "see the light"!

Watson Gabriel