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Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Pump Selection
« Last post by Cary Austin on June 13, 2017, 01:16:03 PM »
If the pump only makes 4.5 GPM and you are trying to irrigate at 7 GPM, that is what causes the pressure to fall off.  A CSv can't help with a pump that is too small.  You really do need to know the depth to water in the well to correctly size a pump.  But a CSV will allow you to install as large a pump as you want, and the CSV will make it work at smaller flow rates as needed.

You also need to make sure the well will produce 7+ GPM.  If the pump you have will produce 4.5 GPM at pressure, it may put out 7-8 GPM without pressure.  i would run a pipe wide open and do a bucket test on the well.
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Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Pump Selection
« Last post by richie0701 on June 13, 2017, 12:04:44 PM »
Last year I installed a new irrigation system that has a demand of about 7GPM/zone.  What happens when I try to run it is that after a (short) while it loses pressure and crashes.  I figured I just needed to add a larger capacity pump, but my recent research has lead me to believe I need a CSV, so I actually purchased a CSV1A which I plan to install this weekend. The resources in this forum have been amazingly helpful.

I'm not sure that will solve my GPM problem but I'm going to do it anyhow as it makes soooo much sense.

About a year ago my expansion tank bladder went and I had a new tank, pressure switch, manifold, water softener, filter, etc. installed so I'll be adding the CSV just in front of that. Off the top of my head I'm not sure what the capacity of the tank is but it's about 3-4ft tall and 2ft wide. I had a tankless water heater installed around the same time too.

The plumber told me my pump would only produce about 4.5 GPM when he installed the new equipment.  He suggested a variable speed pump that would give me up to 12 GPM. Clearly, given the CSV I'm not in the market for a variable speed pump anymore. 😊

I'm looking at pumps, specifically the Lancasters.  I'd like to maintain 55 PSI if I can (I think my switch is 40/60).

When I look at the T-Series spec sheet, I see that the various pumps operate most efficiently at certain depths. For example a 1/2HP pump operating at 80ft and 50 PSI would be far more efficient than a 1HP pump operating at the same depth. I think being able to pump 10 GPM would be adequate for my general needs, even with irrigation and a shower running at the same time.

I don’t know the depth of my well!! I went to the town hall and there’s no record of it either.

I back on to wetlands and doubt my well is all that deep, but you never know.

Should I check well depth and depth to water before I size a pump, should I pull my pump first, or should I go with what makes logical sense which would be a 3/4HP pump?  Am I going in the right direction with Lancaster which seems to use good componentry?

I was going to order the pump ready for the weekend, if it turns out I don’t even needed after I get the CSV set up, I can always return it.

Please bare in mine, I’m not a plumber so take it easy on my dumb questions.

Cheers
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Pictures and Cad drawings of pump systems / CSV Minimum Flow Chart
« Last post by Cary Austin on June 08, 2017, 12:23:15 PM »
Minimum flow rate through Cycle Stop Valves at various differential pressures.
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Valve Tech / Re: CSV and Contact Tank
« Last post by Cary Austin on June 05, 2017, 12:56:07 PM »
The 10 gallon tank would be best for you.  But it is because you are running at 60/80 with the CSV set at 70 PSI, not because of the size of the contact tank.
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Valve Tech / Re: CSV and Contact Tank
« Last post by shakaworld on June 05, 2017, 08:36:47 AM »
Thank you for the quick reply I will check if it drops pellets per a flow meter if not I can get a liquid one that does.  I will look further into the house documents to see if find out the size of the pump and upgrade - will also need to check the flow through the water softener and charcoal tank.  Would the 4.5 tank or the 10 gallon tank be a better fit with the 120 gallon contact tank.
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Valve Tech / Re: CSV and Contact Tank
« Last post by Cary Austin on June 05, 2017, 07:16:14 AM »
Well it sounds like the pump is too small for the demand.  With a larger pump the CSV could hold a good strong constant 70 PSI to the house, but the pump has to be large enough to supply the amount of water needed.

Also the variable flow from the CSV1A may make it hard to regulate the pellet chlorinator.  If it drops a pellet when the pressure switch engages, it may drop too many pellets for the flow rate.  But if it drops pellets according to a flow meter the CSV will work great.
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Valve Tech / CSV and Contact Tank
« Last post by shakaworld on June 05, 2017, 02:39:27 AM »
Hi I'm currently in the process of reconfiguring my well system - I have a 60 gallon pressure tank, Fleck water softner, and clack charcoal auto regenerating filter and I plan to add a inline pellet chlorine system with 120 gallon contact tank - would a
PK1A PSIDE-KICK Kit set to 70 lbs be a good idea or would you recommend something else.  Right now if I flush a toilet it take about 30 seconds for the kitchen faucet to get pressure again and if I run a water hose there is no pressure for anything else in the house - unfortunately I don't know the hp/type of the well pump since I recently bought the house.
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Valve Tech / Re: Pressure not maintained with multiple faucets open
« Last post by Cary Austin on May 31, 2017, 03:06:21 PM »
I wish those salesmen at the supply houses wouldn't act like they know what they are talking about, when they don't have a clue.  There are literally thousands of those J series Goulds pumps running on Cycle Stop Valves without any problems.  Well except for the problem that the reduced cycling from the CSV actually makes the pump last longer, which is the real reason pump supply houses don't like CSV's. 

The JRS7 can build 69 PSI, so it should not have any problems building to 60 PSI for the pressure switch shut off.  If the pump takes a long time to build to 60 or cannot build to 60, it maybe getting hot.  This only happens if the pump is weak or if you have a suction leak.  Something was wrong with the pump and the guy at the supply house is trying hard to blame it on the CSV.  If he actually knew how pumps work, he would be looking for the real problem instead of making stuff up.

You already know more than the guy at the supply house.  Just make sure the pump can easily build to 60 and shut off when no water is being used, and you will be good to go.
Thanks
Cary
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Valve Tech / Re: Pressure not maintained with multiple faucets open
« Last post by JP Wilson on May 31, 2017, 02:22:25 PM »
Cary, Just wanted to send an update and pick your brain a bit more. I replaced that pump with another JRS7 and all is well again. System pressure maintained at 50psi till demand is at least 10-12GPM (could easily be higher, just estimating by amount of flow).

In speaking with my pump supplier while discussing the return of the failed unit, he seemingly indicated the JRS7 might not be the best pump to work with a CSV unit. That my new pump may also fail prematurely as it would be susceptible to overheating while supplying more pressure than the demand from the CSV. I've reviewed Goulds tech info and can find no reference that would indicate this to be a concern since they list the J series pumps specifically for Single family homes, cottages, etc. If you were designing a system such as mine would you have any qualms about the JRS7 pump working in conjunction with the pside-kick? (single family dwelling, 2.5 baths, 2 fulltime household of 2). Thanks again for your assistance.
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Valve Tech / Re: CSV125-1 Installation
« Last post by Cary Austin on May 31, 2017, 07:19:01 AM »
The CSV125 needs to be installed before the hydrant.  It could go in the well or in place of the check valve.  With that check valve before the hydrant it will still allow use of the hydrant.  But the extra check valve is just a problem waiting to happen.  If it is not already causing a water hammer on pump start it will cause that in a matter of time.  Not only does the extra check valve cause water hammer on pump start, but it keeps the underground line at negative pressure, which can draw in contamination from the dirt and mud.  The check valve needs to be removed, but I don't think it will have an effect on the CSV125 installed before the hydrant.
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